Dan Miller on Glyphs, Plinths, QTA and BOBs

[Pulse Cloud]

I'm very happy right now. You know why? Because yesterday, very late into the night, I followed a link (posted by Lord Friendship) to an HBO thread where Bungie employee Dan Miller talked a lot about the inner workings of the Halo scripting engine.
I was so pumped I sent him an email. Sorry for not warning upfront, but I just couldn't hold it.

Greetings,
I just read the AI Script thread on HBO and noticed how... "open" you are to the community about the inner workings of the Halo games.

Because of that, I decided that I should ask you a question that has been burning inside me since the first minutes of playing Halo 3: ODST, my favorite Halo game.
What secret do glyphs hide?

I hope you are in a bit of a shock: yes - the choice of that particular glyph (the "Super TriGlyph") was intentional. The fact that it "spawns" on the "Magic Wall" of District 04 (D04) if the player's Last Checkpoint is on D04 and the player dies on the same District (or close to it) MUST mean that there is something very, very interesting waiting to be unveiled. Something which you might have worked on.
Another two remarkable glyphs are the Super DiGlyph and the Super MonoGlyph, which were only recorded once in the history of ODST. No one outside Bungie knows how to spawn them (most people don't even know they exist!).

Now, I certainly don't want you to spill out the solution to probably the most spectacular Easter Egg of all time (no matter how minuscule it may be, it will always be the one that struck me the most, if only for the mad hunt). That would be no fun.
I just need a few wise words, a clue of sorts - because trust me: if there is something to be found, me and my friends will find it.
We just need a push in the right direction because, well, there have been no developments in a long time.



As you can probably understand, me and my fellow SGP friends (GruntsPajamas.com) are quite fond of Halo's secrets.
We have quite an extensive research about everything related to ODST and some things about Reach too.
If you have the time, you can check our most ambitious discussions/articles after the jumps below. We have much more and many more threads about the subjects below, too.
Bump Glitching (video available too) - a method which allows the de-spawning of specific objects and therefore allows the players to visit most supposedly locked Districts, areas and buildings. Exploits the way Districts are loaded into memory (no hacks, of course).
Plinths (guide) - very peculiar Forerunner columns found on Mombasa Streets. We know they're Forerunner because of this image, taken from the Halo Legends episode "Origins". Maybe there's a secret related to them too!
Zombielites (guide) - those dead Elites spread around Mombasa Streets? We resurrected them [kind of]. The same happened to a dead cop, so I came up with a possible explanation to why this might happen. It's probably wrong, but it shows how we strive to be as factual and scientific as possible in the search of secrets sometimes so cleverly hidden by people just like you!
J Banner 7 - a group of banners found throughout the Campaign which seem to contain some kind of encrypted message.


There's so much I would like to ask you about the links above! But I know your time is limited, because such is the nature of men. In any case, if you happen to wander around our Forums and find a link which points to our old domain subculturelifestyle.com, you just need to replace it with our current one (gruntspajamas.com) to make it work.



I just ask you one more thing: please don't leave me hanging. If you're not planning on answering any of the questions, please just send an email saying you won't. You can be sure I will understand.


Thank you very, very much for your time.
Best regards,
Pedro Tomé, aka Pulse Cloud.


PS: Are Reach's BOBs' spawns determined randomly at the beginning of each mission? Would you say that each mission has ONE BOB with multiple possible spawn points or MULTIPLE BOBs, each one with one single spawn point, which are mutually exclusive (i.e., if one BOB spawns the others won't)? Is it possible for a full playthrough of a mission to have ZERO BOBs, i.e., when the spawn point of the BOB is chosen at the beginning of the mission, is it possible for that spawn point to be nonexistent?
PPS: Tell Joseph Staten I will, one day, figure out the meaning of this.

His reply:

Hey Pedro! Thanks for the email! I don’t have a lot of time, so let me hit on the pertinent parts of your email:

Because of that, I decided that I should ask you a question that has been burning inside me since the first minutes of playing Halo 3: ODST, my favorite Halo game.
What secret do glyphs hide?

I hope you are in a bit of a shock: yes - the choice of that particular glyph (the "Super TriGlyph") was intentional. The fact that it "spawns" on the "Magic Wall" of District 04 (D04) if the player's Last Checkpoint is on D04 and the player dies on the same District (or close to it) MUST mean that there is something very, very interesting waiting to be unveiled. Something which you might have worked on.
Another two remarkable glyphs are the Super DiGlyph and the Super MonoGlyph, which were only recorded once in the history of ODST. No one outside Bungie knows how to spawn them (most people don't even know they exist!).

Now, I certainly don't want you to spill out the solution to probably the most spectacular Easter Egg of all time (no matter how minuscule it may be, it will always be the one that struck me the most, if only for the mad hunt). That would be no fun.
I just need a few wise words, a clue of sorts - because trust me: if there is something to be found, me and my friends will find it.
We just need a push in the right direction because, well, there have been no developments in a long time.

That secret is also a secret internally, with a total of maybe four people in all of Bungie that knows about it. I don’t. That stuff was placed by Joseph Staten- I had no role in it.


Plinths (guide) - very peculiar Forerunner columns found on Mombasa Streets. We know they're Forerunner because of this image, taken from the Halo Legends episode "Origins". Maybe there's a secret related to them too!
I don’t think you can attribute anything in Halo Legends as related to our stuff. Both things were built by separate teams.


PS: Are Reach's BOBs' spawns determined randomly at the beginning of each mission? Would you say that each mission has ONE BOB with multiple possible spawn points or MULTIPLE BOBs, each one with one single spawn point, which are mutually exclusive (i.e., if one BOB spawns the others won't)? Is it possible for a full playthrough of a mission to have ZERO BOBs, i.e., when the spawn point of the BOB is chosen at the beginning of the mission, is it possible for that spawn point to be nonexistent?
BOB scripts were written by different designers, we tried to remain consistent, but there may be subtle differences between them. For my missions, I generated a random number at the beginning of the script and that determined which Bob would spawn. It is not possible to play my missions (or any other, for what I remember) and have no BOBs. BOBs will always spawn, if not it is a bug.


PPS: Tell Joseph Staten I will, one day, figure out the meaning of this.
Good luck! I don’t fully understand it either! It’s more of an internal codeword.

Proof attached.


I'd like you guys to help me decide if there is something we should ask that he could answer immediately - we should be thankful Dan even read my email, so let's not go overboard and ask too much.
The question(s) would go along, as a quick little bonus, with the "thank you so much" reply.


Don't let that fiery excitement make you need to post your theories right now - please change your pants first.


UPDATE (2011-11-19):
My "thank you" email in response to his reply:

Thank you so much for your reply, Dan.
It's great knowing at least some developers don't mind sharing their knowledge with those who play their games.

I must tell you our correspondence was shared, publicly, with the rest of the community I'm part of, the SGP.
Even though I think you were expecting that, I didn't warn you beforehand - and for that I am sorry. It didn't even cross my mind until a member of the SGP, the founder himself, raised the question.
For reference, the thread where it was posted can be found here.

I would also like to apologize for assuming anything developed by 343 had any direct developmental connection with anything developed by Bungie.



We are all very thankful for your patience and support. And for some of the most memorable campaign missions too!

Best regards, and the best of luck with that "Grognok" project of yours!
Pedro Tomé


PS: Just a couple of questions other members of the SGP wanted me to ask you:
1) What drove the design decision to include invisible "Covenant Pilot" objects inside of the Banshees?
We know they're there because when you hijack a Banshee on top of a building on New Alexandria, the marines start shooting the ground (roof of the building) somewhere where the Banshee pilot would have fallen if it existed - and blood spurts out of the ground. If we melee that exact spot on the ground, we lunge towards it and get a pummel medal, proving the existence of an invisible, super small, non-moving pilot for each Banshee. Also, the frame-rate drops considerably when we look directly at them.

2) Do you know anything about whether "Tip of the Spear" is, or not, an exception in terms of BOB spawns? If not, do you recall who designed that mission? How conducive might that person be to similar emails from us about their level?

UPDATE (2011-11-22):
His reply

> 1) What drove the design decision to include invisible "Covenant Pilot" objects inside of the Banshees?
> We know they're there because when you hijack a Banshee on top of a building on New Alexandria, the marines start shooting the ground (roof of the building) somewhere where the Banshee pilot would have fallen if it existed - and blood spurts out of the ground. If we melee that exact spot on the ground, we lunge towards it and get a pummel medal, proving the existence of an invisible, super small, non-moving pilot for each Banshee. Also, the frame-rate drops considerably when we look directly at them.

The invisible elite is a way we saved a lot of memory to make New Alexandria even possible. The game keeps track of all enemies, their skeletons and everything. In order to fit more banshees in the level, we made a special non-skeleton/non-model elite.

I have no information about BOBs for any level besides my two. Sorry

Thanks for the email!

And my final reply:

Thank you a lot, Dan. It was a pleasure learning all this from you.

Best wishes,
Pedro

[Nader]

My third pair of pants has been changed and Im not too sure how long I can keep them clean. Just.......wow

That secret is also a secret internally, with a total of maybe four people in all of Bungie that knows about it. I don't. That stuff was placed by Joseph Staten- I had no role in it.

I was very doubtful the glyphs held any secret but this outright proves they do.

BOB scripts were written by different designers, we tried to remain consistent, but there may be subtle differences between them. For my missions, I generated a random number at the beginning of the script and that determined which Bob would spawn. It is not possible to play my missions (or any other, for what I remember) and have no BOBs. BOBs will always spawn, if not it is a bug.

I think its safe to say we still have some BOBs out there, may I suggest you ask how many in each level and the total number of them.

[Pulse Cloud]

may I suggest you ask how many in each level and the total number of them.

I believe that would be asking a bit too much - I think the fun part is discovering that ourselves.

I'd suggest something there's no way we can prove, something technical even. Maybe something we've always admitted was true but may very well not be.

Also, Miller probably won't be able to help us on that one because "BOB scripts were written by different designers". He only ever speaks about things he's worked on directly.


Also, I just noticed your signature. No, I won't let you touch my shaft with your red-tipped axe.

[Nader]

  @ both of your points

EDIT:We need to atleast ask him why the BOBs are there in the first place. That seems reasonable enough.

EDIT2: Oh and make sure you confirm that he is saying there is indeed a secret behind the glyphs

[ColdGlider]

@Pulse:  Congratulations on presenting Dan with your questions intelligently, and on getting such an interesting reply!!!  It's truly a milestone. 

Staten had some interesting things to say on the Bungie podcast in the run-up to ODST.  He was very candid about how the mystery was intentionally seeded, and that you could actually figure things out if you "did your own recon".  (This was back when the game was still called "Recon").

Scat has a bit of an "in" with Staten.  I would recommend forwarding ODST questions through him.

My burning question will probably be about the J-Banners.  Once I narrow down who might have been the responsible party for those textures, perhaps I'll fire them off a similar email.

All-in-all, well done. 

[Pulse Cloud]

@Pulse:  Congratulations on presenting Dan with your questions intelligently (...). It's truly a milestone.  

Thank... you?

I'd like to point out that it seems that Miller didn't need any description of what a BOB is to know what I meant.
Of course we don't know if he googled "Halo Reach BOB", but it's unlikely because he seemed pretty fine in calling them BOBs and not the "in-house" name.
What I'm trying to get at is: the in-house name for BOB is BOB, which means their "meaning" and why they exist was set from the very early stages of the "let's make some BOBs" idea.


Note: According to this post on HBO, Miller worked on at least two levels: New Alexandria and The Package.

[Scatcycle]

I agree with Pulse, let's not ask about stuff like how many of X, ect. That's for us to find out.

So this means there is actually a secret with the glyphs? This is awesome! We should probably get to this.

He disregarded Zombielites, signifying that they were unimportant, so I'm guessing they were just a bug.

The only connection I have with Staten is that he gave me a book. I know his parents. I don't really think I can just go up to his parents and say: "Hey, could you ask your son what Plinths do?"
...
The more that I look at that, it does actually seem probable. Staten's parents (or his dad at least) is fairly interested in Joseph's work. It is also very likely that he was the one who wrote in Joseph's book, as Pulse showed how he circled and underlined some conspicuous things. He himself might be interested on the topic of "Plinths" too. If I told him to ask he may want to know more about these plinths. Joseph's dad is also a (Philosopher)? That enjoys discussing about things that have no true answer. That's why he likes the Halo Universe. Behind the "aliens are attacking us, fight back!" layout, there's a lot more that there seems. Mainly religious aspects. Assuming that these glyphs are part of a religious aspect.

@Pulse: I think CG means the milestone of all this new info.

[Pulse Cloud]

(...) as Pulse showed how he circled and underlined some conspicuous things.

I don't remember that. Source?

@Pulse: I think CG means the milestone of all this new info.

whisper whisper: I know. Just messing with him. :)

[Scatcycle]

(...) as Pulse showed how he circled and underlined some conspicuous things.

I don't remember that. Source?

@Pulse: I think CG means the milestone of all this new info.

whisper whisper: I know. Just messing with him.

http://www.gruntspajamas.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=717.0;attach=647;image
It was actually Apollo. Anyway, the source is me. The book Staten gave me has many underlines and circling in it.

I'm so slow!

[Pulse Cloud]

It was actually Apollo. Anyway, the source is me. The book Staten gave me has many underlines and circling in it.

Interesting.


People, remember that we have to decide what to ask (if anything) today! Tomorrow, 20h from now (check the post's date) the "thank you" email.
If you haven't decided by then what to ask, then nothing will be asked.

[ColdGlider]

In regard to what I might ask Dan Miller:

• What drove the design decision to include invisible "Covenant Pilot" objects inside of the Banshees? 
• Do you know if the "Golden Tree City" challenge is written to check for the death of the Banshee object, The Covenant Pilot object, or both?
• Do you recall who designed "Tip of the Spear"?  How conducive might that person be to similar emails from us about their level?
• We assume the "Golden Tree City" challenge's namesake is your nickname of "Tree City".  What's up with the "Golden" part?  Is it just because your level design quality is as good as gold?

I'd thank him for the final mission "Halo" in Halo 3:  it was awesome!

I'd also apologize for assuming anything developed by 343 had any direct developmental connection with anything developed by Bungie.

[Scatcycle]

Might wanna include the Anonymous Pilot thread with that question. He may have developed NA, but the Reach banshees were made long before in levels like WC. I doubt he coded them. He may not understand what we mean.

[Pulse Cloud]

In regard to what I might ask Dan Miller:

• What drove the design decision to include invisible "Covenant Pilot" objects inside of the Banshees? 
• Do you know if the "Golden Tree City" challenge is written to check for the death of the Banshee object, The Covenant Pilot object, or both?
• Do you recall who designed "Tip of the Spear"?  How conducive might that person be to similar emails from us about their level?
• We assume the "Golden Tree City" challenge's namesake is your nickname of "Tree City".  What's up with the "Golden" part?  Is it just because your level design quality is as good as gold?

I'd thank him for the final mission "Halo" in Halo 3:  it was awesome!

I'd also apologize for assuming anything developed by 343 had any direct developmental connection with anything developed by Bungie.

• I think the first two questions aren't the most important ones we can come up with - especially because there's a way for us to test the second one.
• As an SGP member I love the third question, but if I were Miller I think I wouldn't like it as much: giving your colleague's (which you might not know very well, because there's so many people at Bungie) email to some rabid fans you know will email him (and probably tell him it was you who gave them the email) isn't as easy as it sounds.
• The last question is more of a trivia question...

I will thank him for "Halo" and apologize for the Halo Legends thing.

Sorry CG, I just think we should come up with something related to Mission Design/scripting where Miller very probably had a say in.
Something that's been stumping and impeding us from continuing <something>.


For instance, I doubt Miller knows anything about the J Banner 7 - it's more related to Story and Art than actual Mission Design.

[ColdGlider]

Sorry CG, I just think we should come up with something related to Mission Design/scripting where Miller very probably had a say in.
Something that's been stumping and impeding us from continuing <something>.

For me, that would be the first two questions.  These are all related to completing our comprehensive analysis of the BOBs.  But I am admittedly more interested in that topic than most.

I look forward to reading what questions the rest of the group has for Dan.

[Lord Friendship]

The only thing I would want to ask him is about the TotS BOB issues, and this would need to be worded carefully.  Allow me to explain.

We're having a specific issue (there's about a one in five chance that no BOB spawns on Tip of the Spear) but it's not necessarily his area of expertise.  In my mind, this is THE issue right now re: BOBs.  There are different ways to count the number of BOBs, how to number and organize the BOBs, and so on, but that's largely moot.  Since I'll be wiping out each and every BOB spawn in Reach, on Legendary, in a full-run no-death game where I read all Data Pads, it doesn't matter if there are 10 BOBs or 49 BOBs.  I'm going for completion, so if what I'm doing is overkill it's not a big deal.  But, if we can't find a BOB, that's an issue.

Since we can repeatably predict the BOB spawns on every level except TotS, I believe we're aware of the BOB spawns with the exception of that level.  Once we get this particular issue cleared up, it won't be too long before I can complete the BOB guide and determine, once and for all, if anything happens if you wipe out all the BOBs on Legendary.

In short: I believe the missing Tip of the Spear BOB is the last significant BOB mystery, and I believe we should make some effort to get assistance there.